Kurdistan Observer

Prime Minister of the Iraq Kurdistan Patriotic Union (PUK) Berham Salah visited Turkish officials to check the Turkish pulse on a probable U.S. military strike on Iraq and the aftermath after toppling Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. Salah, answering questions for the Turkish Daily News (TDN) stated that Turkey would one day realize that their government was not so bad. Salah called on Iraqi Turcomans to attend U.S. sponsored opposition meetings, since they were partners of the country.

Q: You are on your way to Washington. What messages on behalf of your party are you taking to the United States regarding an operation on Iraq?

A: I will take the opportunity to consult with various U.S. government officials in the United States. We know that the debate on Iraq has reached a critical stage. We certainly want to know the status of the debate and to also to offer our perspectives on issues that effect our interests in Iraq.

Q: Another Kurdish group leader in Northern Iraq, Mr. Barzani, said yesterday that they would not be giving support to an operation against Iraq unless autonomy is not provided. How do you comment on that? Do you share the same view?

A: These are all hypothetical questions. We have not been asked to support an operation as such. But I want to emphasize, we are freedom fighters. We have been fighting for our freedom and for democracy in Iraq for decades. Furthermore, we are not interested in replacing one dictator with another dictator. The people of Iraq, including the Kurds, deserve a better future. There are also other issues that we subscribe to, like a federal structure, for the future of Iraq. This is no longer a Kurdish request, it is an Iraqi request. I remind you that in 1999 the Iraqi opposition in New York unanimously endorsed the concept of a "Federal Democratic Iraq."

Q: You are saying "our country as Iraqis," but you also carry the title of Prime Minister. Is there a separate state in Northern Iraq? What are you going to be the Prime Minister of?

A: We have a regional government that came into existence after 1991, which administers the region of Kurdistan, or part of the Kurdistan region. Then Iraq withdrew its administrative powers from the region, we moved in to fill the vacuum. We have parliamentary elections, we have set up democratic institutions for the administration of that region. This experience of the Kurdistan regional government is an important and impressive story. In 10 years time, we have achieved remarkable success. Contrast what we have in the rest of Iraq, it is impressive. Let me remind you of some statistics. In 1991, in the PUK region, We had 191 doctors; in 2002 we have 732 doctors. In 1991, we had 504 schools, today we have 1,890 schools...

Q: Are you saying it fully deserves to be separated?

A: It has been in reality over the last 10 years de facto independent. We have been de facto separate from the Iraqi State. We are seeking a democratic Iraq to which we can rejoin. We know there is no prospect for a Kurdish state. We have no way of escaping the State of Iraq. The geopolitics of Iraq are such that it will be kept united. Our interest lies in rejoining Iraq, a democratic Iraq. Iraq is already divided. When change comes to Iraq, the irony is that some people speak of a recipe that will divide Iraq. They are absolutely, utterly wrong. A dictatorship, totalitarian rule, is dividing Iraq on ethnic terms; Kurds vs. Arabs, on sectarian lines, Shii vs. Sunni. We need to put this country back together if we want to live in peace and prosperity. How can we do that? Only through a democratic system of government at peace, first and foremost with the people of Iraq and with the neighbors.

Q: Coming back to the operation scenarios. The Prime Minister is saying that Turkey is under pressure to give support on an operation and that there are concerns that the Turkish government is not informed enough by the Americans. How do you comment on that?

A: I will not comment on the very special relation between Turkey and the United States. Turkey has a special status for the United States, it is a member of NATO. But I do understand that there are a lot of anxieties in Turkey, understandably so. They talk about stability and instability as a result of an action on Iraq.

Q: Can you voice your concerns as well as what you want to the Turkish authorities?

A: I think our relations with the Turkish authorities have improved tremendously over the years. I would like to improve our bilateral relations with Turkey. Look at where we started, and where we are today. Who would have thought that Turkey would tolerate the situation in Iraqi Kurdistan for 10 years. Had you said to a NSC official 12 years ago that this would happen, I'm sure you would have been told no way. I think Turkey discovered through practical measures that the situation in Iraqi Kurdistan, that the Kurdish sub-government at the end of the day was not so bad for Turkey. In fact the evolution of democratic institutions and an accountable government is something that can be used for Turkey as an asset. That is a process. We need to convince our neighbors, not only Turkey, but Iran also, that democracy in Iraq and bringing about a government in Iraq at peace with the people of Iraq is a must for regional stability. The history of Iraq is one of internal repression and external aggression. That history must change.

Recognition is a matter for Iraqis

Q: Are you seeking recognition?

A: Recognition is a matter for Iraqis. At the end of the day, the whole matter of the Kurds of Iraq can only be solved through Baghdad. We have to bring about a democratic form of government in which Kurds, Arabs, Turcomans, Assyrians... all sectors of Iraq will have a share.

Our interests are not mutually exclusive. It is not a zero-sum game. The security of Iraqi Kurdistan is also good for Turkish security and Iranian security. I am not going to get into semantics, and I understand the sensitivities of these terms that are used in the matter.

I am an Iraqi and a Kurd

We are on the brink of a change, the whole world and the Middle East is changing. We need to think in new terms. Enough is enough. I don't want to be boxed into this category of being a Kurd and nothing but a Kurd. I am a democrat, I am a Kurd, and I am proud of my Kurdish heritage, but history has obliged me to be an Iraqi. I have accepted that. I am also a human being. My interest and the interest of a Turkish secular democrat in Istanbul, in Ankara or in Izmir are the same, or in Baghdad. Let's work on this concept.

Q: One of Turkey's concerns is also that in the case of an operation, there will be a huge influx of Kurdish refugees. You said that the region has developed a lot in recent years. Would you say that the consequences of a war will not be the same as the Gulf war?

A: Everything we are talking about is hypothetical. I don't think many people know what the American plans are. In any situation, should we be presented with any options, definitely we will be seeking very firm guarantees. The civilian population will be defended, we don't want to see a repeat of 1991. This is serious business. We are talking about lives. The people of Iraqi Kurdistan have suffered so much. I think it is paramount that we do not see them inhuman. Turkey has also a very relevant concern about another exodus. The way that we would decide on any issue, one of the important criteria will be to protect our people; not only the Kurds. All Iraqis have suffered so much.

Q: In case of a war, will you able to contain your civilians?

A: The is no doubt that in any situation, like my boss Mr. Talabani always emphasizes, are interests are intertwined with our neighbors. We live in an integrated world. What happens in Suleymaniye or in Erbil, matters in Ankara, and these days, in Washington as well. We need to work closely with our neighbors to ensure that our region doesn't become disadvantaged by the conflict. That requires close cooperation and coordination. From a political point of view, we are very cautious. We have no interest in getting in the middle of a conflict where we don't have a word to say. We certainly hope for a resolution through peaceful means.

Q: Is there an intensified military presence in Northern Iraq and are there any American troops?

A: There are no American troops in Iraqi Kurdistan and no intensified troops. These are very sensitive, serious issues. We do not want to give anyone the pretext to harm defenseless, innocent civilians.

Turcomans should attend meetings

Salah met with Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Ugur Ziyal and said that they discussed the current situation in Iraq and Northern Iraq.

Salah, answering a question about Iraqi Turcomans, stated that Turcomans were the partners of the country, saying, "Turcomans should attend the meeting regarding the future of our country."

Salah is expected to have further meetings with Turkish military authorities and Turkish intelligence. Salah, after his visits in Turkey, will go to the United States to consult with U.S. authorities in New York. PUK leader Jelal Talabani will attend the Washington meeting, set up by the U.S. government.